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Interview with Gift Egwuenu

In this episode, Sean C. Davis interviews Gift Egwuenu, developer advocate at Cloudflare, about serverless, Jamstack and web development.

Featured Guest

Gift is a Developer Advocate at Cloudflare. She has over 5 years of experience in web development and building tools to help businesses grow. In her previous role, she worked as a front-end developer. She is now working in developer relations.

Gift shares her experience in Web Development, Jamstack, and career-related topics, with the goal of helping people level up their skills in the industry.

Gift is a Developer Advocate at Cloudflare. She has worked in the web development industry for over 5 years building tools and products that help businesses scale. In her previous role, she worked as a front-end developer. She is now working in developer relations.

Gift loves to share her experience in web development, and career-related topics, with the goal of helping people level up their skills in the industry.

Hosted by

Sean is a tinkerer and a teacher. He is driven to learn by doing (often failing) and loves passing those learnings onto others who may find them beneficial.


Sean C. Davis: [00:00:00] Hey, everybody. Welcome to code sandwich hour, a certified fresh event where we talk code and sandwiches, and we do it all in about an hour or less than an hour this week, probably. Yeah, actually. Before we get started a quick word to all your viewers and listeners out there that this show is gonna follow a slightly different format than earlier episodes in season one.

So the individual and pun segments that we have been doing, they were really fun, but they were structured in such a way that it was leading to shows that were getting a little too long. So rather than. Get better at hosting. I’m just throwing out the whole format and drawing something new.

But no, really. This is it’s. The show is still very new we’re in season one. So we’re quickly evolving testing things to make sure that we can present a format and a show that is great for our guests and also for [00:01:00] you the audience. Today, we’ll have no segments, the former third segment where the hot seat segment, where we were doing lots of quick questions and answers, we’re producing a lot of a really fun responses.

So wanna keep that in place. So after about 30 minutes or so we’re gonna shift into this speed round and explore a few final questions before we end and wrap the episode. And of course, we’re going to start with the most important topic first as always. So with that, let’s get into. This week’s special guest is gift ENU.

She’s a developer advocate for cloud flare for CloudFlare. See if I can get that right. Welcome to the show gift.

Gift Egwuenu: Thank you so much, Sean, for having me really excited to be on show.

Sean C. Davis: Yeah, absolutely. I’m excited to have this conversation as well. And so let’s start with, the most important question first.

What is the best sandwich?

Gift Egwuenu: okay. I came prepared. I. I would say my best for now is the tuna salad sandwich. And this [00:02:00] is very opinionated because. Folks that have tried it. Don’t like it. I think people that I have, put on to try it, they don’t end up liking it, but I like it a lot. And for me, that’s like the easy go to sandwich right now for like when I’m out and I need to grab something quick.

I’ll choose that over any other and not to bash anyone, but I feel like peanut butter and jelly is also good. I’m like 50 50 on that. So I tried it once. Okay. And it was nice and I tried it again and I was like, no, this is crap. , so I’m like, where, so I’ll say, okay. That’s my second one.

After the Sal that,

Sean C. Davis: yeah. Okay. Okay. Let’s oh, I have, so I have so many questions. So you said you’ve tried you’ve only tried peanut butter and jelly twice. Yeah, just twice. Yeah. Okay. So is it Yeah. Where was it something you made or did you come across it in a restaurant?

Gift Egwuenu: Actually? No. I was with a friend in the us and [00:03:00] she was raving about it. I’m like, okay, make one for me. And maybe because of the vibes she had and she’s gift, you need to try this. It’s super nice. And I tried it and I was like, okay, nice. Then I go home and I made it myself and I was like, No.

What did you do? I dunno. I don’t know. So maybe I did. I honestly don’t know that there is a wrong way to make it. It’s just, you get bread, you add the peanut butter and then you add the jelly, right? Maybe I got not the best brand, four.

Sean C. Davis: Yeah, it could that, I dunno. I tried to there, there was a, had a guest on a couple episodes ago who said that the best sandwich is a sandwich that’s made by somebody else.

So maybe, maybe it was partially that too, somebody else made the first peanut butter

Gift Egwuenu: jelly. Yeah. Yeah. I probably would agree with that. Yeah, I will. Yeah. Okay.

Sean C. Davis: And on the tuna. So I think you’re the yeah. Second or maybe third person this season to say some, tuna sandwich.

And [00:04:00] I I know they tend to be fairly popular. I shouldn’t say popular, I should say probably polarizing where people tend to either love them or hate them. And I’m someone who just didn’t grow up with tuna salad. So I feel like after people are saying these are their favorite sandwiches, I’m like, I need to try this now.


Gift Egwuenu: Interesting for me, because mine is like elite to be recent. So I moved to the Netherlands like two years ago and that’s my that’s a period when I’ve found I liked it right before now what I’m used to. I should call this sandwich. It’s close to sandwich. It’s toast, bread. That’s what I grew up with.

So it’s basically toasted bread and then you have SAS eggs in inside of it. And then you eat that with hot chocolates or tea or any of that. Oh, wow. So that is like what I grew up eating and that’s what I’ll call sandwich, but I’ve not had that in Al so this is now my new best sandwich.

Sean C. Davis: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. [00:05:00] So do you is this tuna salad sandwich? Is this one that you make and you’ve got like you’ve got it down. You love it. Or do you have a specific place that you go to or a place? Even a store that you have to source the tuna.

Gift Egwuenu: Yeah, I buy it already made most, mostly.

And it’s from like the local grocery store here. It’s called Haine. I’m saying that correctly. Yeah. I think that the first time I tried there was at work and I needed to grab lunch and I went to the store and I just grabbed a. This thing, I didn’t even know what it was. I just grabbed it. So I had a bite and it was really good.

So since then, if I’m out and I need to eat something, that’s my go to, breakfast or quick meal and yeah, I don’t, I’m not a very, so I tend to go for if I’m eating food spicy. So when I’m eating sandwich is probably because I’m out know when I’m in my house. Cause I end up making my own.

So I think of sandwich as a quick meal, or [00:06:00] maybe I’m eating at a restaurant and they have that option. Then I order. Yeah.

Sean C. Davis: That makes that makes sense. I also love that your answer to the best sandwich came from just blindly grabbing one. I don’t know what this is, but then it’s, that’s the best thing ever.

That’s great. Yeah.

Gift Egwuenu: Yeah.

Sean C. Davis: It’s nice. Okay. So yeah this is great. And now I’m, yeah. Now I’m super motivated. I feel like you push me over the edge too. It’s time to try some tune us out. So I’m gonna do that. Yeah, maybe later today, but for now, yeah let’s get into a little bit of technology.

So I I came across that you’re you’re working on or vol involved with this thing called master school. And so I was hoping we could start there and you tell me a little bit more about master school and I really don’t know anything about it. Maybe start with what is the concept there?

What, what do they do?

Gift Egwuenu: Yeah, sure. So master school is a program that. Mostly helping new developers or people interested in getting into tech to [00:07:00] get like their first job by going through like a period of training. So like your typical bootcamp, but this is online, and you can join from anywhere.

So the concept of it being a master school is that they have different schools. So they have a web development school intern school I think there are more, but these are the two that comes to mind and I am a master. Master here. I don’t I don’t know when I say master is like ma master is like a mentor, right?

So it’s you have this cohorts of a group of 20 people trying to get into web developments and I’m a mentor for that school. So I have a school of web development at master school, and my course starts in October. But I have the reason why I’m doing this is cause for the longest time I’ve had like very big passion for helping mostly.

Get into industry. And when I when I spoke to the folks at master [00:08:00] school and they told me about their goal is that they’re looking to train more people, help them learn jobs. And all of that, I felt like this is closely aligned to my own personal, goal of helping people bridge the gap.

People that are interested in moving from different fields or career to getting into. And it’s also so my role there is a curriculum, right? They have all of that stuff, but they’re adding the additional touch of having a, experienced person, show them the way while they’re going through that path.

So every week when I start, I would have two sessions with the students to walk them to, for example Technical problems that they are having, or just give them like one on one sessions to, go through questions that they have, because most of the time when people are this, first year or first six months trying to get into tech, it’s a very difficult process, to go through that. But if they have one go to [00:09:00] person that he could ask questions to, and this is something I do literally every day. Cause I have. Different outlets for people to reach out to me based on that, trying to get into tech. So this is just like a, another additional medium for me to continue helping people.

So yeah, that’s what master school is about. Yeah.

Sean C. Davis: Interesting. So the students that are in your cohort, they have, do are most of them. I guess you’re you, they’re not starting till October, but do you think that most of them come with essentially? No. Yeah, no experience.

Gift Egwuenu: Yeah, I would say 90% of them probably have no experience.

Like they’re trying to, maybe some of them have done cuz I’ve spoken to a few people that are interested. And the thing I’m seeing in lot is some people are already learning, but they’re very confused. Like they don’t know what directions go to and you feel like going through, so maybe a few people have done.

Little bit high level learning of H M L CSS before coming in. So they’re not [00:10:00] like this is new to me. So maybe a few people are like that and others are just like straight off just coming in for the first time learning this stuff. Yeah.

Sean C. Davis: Interesting. Okay. And have, do you have to do you have to create all of the curriculum or are you following something that’s already been

Gift Egwuenu: created?

Yeah, I, so every school, so it’s not just my school running. Simultaneously they have four to five or six web development schools and all of them have to, they’re using the same curriculum. So the school in this case, master school already. A curriculum, but my role there is to help mentor them to go through so questions that they have, helping them, unblock from, if they have any issues throughout the process of the duration, cuz it’s seven months.

And they have an acceleration program towards, they, them prepare for their CV application interviews and all of that towards the end of the program. So in total. 10 [00:11:00] months. Yeah.

Sean C. Davis: Oh, okay. So the goal is to actually place them in a job similar to what

Gift Egwuenu: bootcamp? Bootcamp. Yeah, exactly.

Sean C. Davis: Interesting. Interesting. Okay. And so then you’re you’re doing, you said all of the teaching is remote, so you’re facilitating all this, like through zoom or some, something

Gift Egwuenu: like that. Yeah. You be truism. I’m assuming, cuz I’ve not started, but I’m sure to be through zoom. There’s also going to be like a one OnOne session to peer programming slash just having peer conversations within the people in my school.

So I’d have a currently with available times that people could book. So regardless of the one session we have per week, you can also just chat with me. Yeah.

Sean C. Davis: Okay. Interesting. Oh, and so this is gonna be I don’t know. That seems like such a cool way to go about teaching folks, because I think, I know boot camps are a popular thing, that popular concept that are out there in ways for people to break into tech.

But yeah, when I think about teaching, like there’s so many. [00:12:00] Courses that are more like, I’m gonna record this and I’m not necessarily working one on one with people, so that’s gonna be cool. You’ll get I imagine pretty close with all the, all 20 of those

Gift Egwuenu: folks. Yeah. I’m definitely looking forward it cuz also I, I feel like it’s something that is missing.

That’s personal thought of having someone you can go to, to ask questions and I’m very happy that, I have that. Small community of people I can help because I think when he dawns on me, that this is actually very good is when I start hearing people get jobs. Which is the end goal. So just going through the processes, going to be a new experience for me. Definitely. Cause it’s first time I’m doing something like this, but I’m definitely root routine for the folks that will be my school. And just seeing how the, advance from doing the program to getting jobs.

Sean C. Davis: Yeah, absolutely. That seems that’s gonna be super interesting. I’m like, all yeah. Let’s I’m gonna, let’s do this show again in, in a year we’re talking about [00:13:00] and see, right? Yes. Okay. And speaking of teaching I mentioned that seeing a lot of recorded videos, I also came across a course you did on next JS.

I think released less than a month ago or so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. First of all, unrelated to that, I noticed that you released it on LinkedIn and I didn’t even know that was a thing. So how did you, like, how did you come across the LinkedIn courses? Oh,

Gift Egwuenu: interesting story there.

I’ve known about LinkedIn learning for. Like a period of two years, I’ll say, cuz I’m part of this program by Microsoft’s Microsoft MVP and you get like one of the pers you get access to all link and features, including LinkedIn learning. And that was when I first found the platform and I would liken it to ha it, but Hege has like more shorter 16 courses.

And. Goal of mine has always been to my goal one step further from making YouTube [00:14:00] videos to creating a course. And I explored the idea of doing it by myself around last year, but I thought that it wasn’t achievable. So I just, when you have a thought and you’re like, maybe I should try doing this thing and something that shows you like maybe you shouldn’t and I just kept Flut.

But I definitely knew I wanted to try my hands doing courses. I, first of all, got reached out from the folks at Egar and this was way early, I was like three years into my career and there was the imposter syndrome saying can you actually do this? Can you actually do this gifts? And I went through the initial.

Process of doing the test sample video sentence, but when it was time to start recording, I gave up and I’m very angry about that for myself, but I still tried different things regardless. And I’m funny story, I’m going to be making another course in a few months there, so it’s fine. But I found [00:15:00] LinkedIn through another program that I’m part of is called GitHub stars.

Okay. It’s yeah, it’s another kind of developer expat programs by one of those big companies, just trying to encourage folks in the community doing teaching blogging, open source work and all that. And someone reached out to me via email from LinkedIn learning, asking me to do a course on GitHub.

I think they thought I worked at GitHub. Maybe why too. I think so, because they’re like, Hey, would you like to do a Gito enterprise course on LinkedIn learning? I was like I’m not sure I can’t do that. Cuz I don’t even, do stuff with Gito enterprise, but I pitched back and I’m like can I do something with NOx?

Because that’s what I know. And that’s what I use. And they were like, oh fine, let’s get on a call. And from. We had a first call and they liked it. And this is interesting because they don’t have a NOx content on their platform. So they were like, okay, fine platforms like this, usually ask you to do a sample video.

And then I did [00:16:00] that and then they approved it. And that’s how I got to recording and have the course publisher for six months. yeah.

Sean C. Davis: It’s. Yeah. So it took six months to put.

Gift Egwuenu: Yeah, because in between I was moving in between, there were like times when yes, it was a long process, but at least getting to the point where they published it and I saw it live.

And that was when it just felt okay, I put in a lot of work into this thing and it’s actually, out there. Say school. Yeah.

Sean C. Davis: Which must feel good, cuz I, I think that I think a lot of folks be me included, even though I create content it’s it’s so easy to undervalue the work that has to go into something like that.

Like it’s what it’s about an hour and a half of video and it seems okay. Like this, how it takes an hour and a half to put together and it’s no, no months of I’ve got to, I’ve gotta create the whole course. I’ve gotta test it. And then you change something in the middle and then it’s okay, now I gotta, now I gotta change the whole thing and rerecord.

Gift Egwuenu: Yeah. And video videos. Videos are [00:17:00] more difficult. Cause I learned a lot of stuff throughout the process, even for my own personal videos that I make. But it’s way difficult. Like you have to think about video audio qualities. Super important. You make one mistake, you have to re rerecord, all of that stuff.

But yeah, it was a very good learning process specifically because this is something I want to do more of exploring to do more courses in the future. So this is like a good entry point into, cost sneaking. I’s see. Yeah.

Sean C. Davis: So one thing that that I’ve thought about a lot is the.

The difference between building something and then publishing it in your own space versus working with some sort of established program or pattern, knowing like the risk and the reward on on in my space might be a larger But, yeah, I don’t know. I’ve thought a lot about the difference between the two.

So what can you say that you’ve found to be beneficial [00:18:00] in doing, GitHub stars, Microsoft MVP, LinkedIn courses to attach yourself to these brands and these platforms that already exist versus trying to throw it on your website.

Gift Egwuenu: Sure. I can speak to that because I’ve done personal research to do like self-published first, before going through platforms like this.

I think the one thing that is very prominent, why people do it, of course, the bigger cops than to do on your own is. Having a platform first, like you go on LinkedIn and they also have a mode subscription model. Maybe I should speak about pricing later or the first thing you think about is do I have a platform or do I have a community of people that would eventually get to, Watch this course when I finally publish it.

And how much marketing do I need to invest to get, cause it’s not just you recording something and putting it out there. You still need to like, do most of the, so you’re basically the [00:19:00] video creator, the editor. You’re essentially the marketing person. You’re the, you are everything you want, if you’re doing it on your own, but if you go with platforms that are established, most of the work is taken away from you. For example, I’ll speak to LinkedIn. LinkedIn does the editing. They really help you with scripting. So the process follows you give them the idea, you do like a test video, then you create an outline after an outline, you script it.

And in between this process, there’s only someone reviewing the stuff that you’re doing. So gets it very polished and scripting after scripting, you start recording. Recording then that’s where your, work ends. At least for that time. Then they take it to their editors. They come back to you.

If there’s like anything in between. And then after that’s pretty much your, workload during the process. So you script and your record. If I was doing that on my own, then I have to do everything. [00:20:00] Sometimes, I don’t even have a streamline process. Like sometimes you just be like, oh, I’ll just try doing this thing.

Maybe just record one video and see how it goes without having scripts for it. Cause you’re doing it by yourself and probably you’ve not done it before. It’s different for people that are independent cost creators that have done it years over years. And you have like lots of learnings and experience from it.

But if it’s your first time, you definitely do. You definitely make a lot of mistakes, but going through platforms like that are specifically for things like this. They currently have instructors that are instructor trainers or production, cost, production, cost, producers. I’m just thinking of the name, okays cost producers and those.

Those are very experienced people that have been doing this for years. So they work with you hand in hand. And that’s the first thing. The second thing is of course the platform itself. So when it’s published, there are already people using it. Like they are not essentially buying your course.

They have a subscription. With the [00:21:00] platform and they can watch your course, which is nice. And that’s when I talk about pricing. Yeah. It’s very difficult because eventually if you make it yourself, you have to think about how much is, how much should I price this? How much is this,

Sean C. Davis: yeah,

Gift Egwuenu: exactly.

Yeah. It’s a lot. So you still have to deal with all the. Accounting stuff. I don’t think you have to with all the files from, because it’s like you make an agreement with them based off of, oh, after I think you follow most likely the YouTube payment system where someone watches, you get paid, someone watches, you get paid, something like that.

Yeah. I think it’s for the first time going through that is easier. Maybe if you’ve done it a few years and you’re like, maybe I can do this by myself. Then it’s okay to do it on your own, but I find that this was really helpful, even though it took a lot of work. I feel like if I had done it by myself in between, I probably would’ve just said I’m not doing this again.[00:22:00]

or I’ll do it in a few months, but this, you had to work like timeline to get it published. So it was really helpful.

Sean C. Davis: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So that’s a great summary of the comparison there and yeah, you mentioned pricing and that was something that I’ve thought about as well is I’ve felt at least in some, I’ve been approached by some platforms to to create a course and they’re typically less established platforms.

And so that probably changes it a little bit, but I have found that the. The pricing model wasn’t I felt like it was undervalued. Like it was more of a flat fee and it wasn’t going to cover. Yeah. Like reasonably the time that I knew I would have to spend, but it sounds like the LinkedIn model is a little bit different that you there’s really no ceiling.

If your course grows in popularity that you make more money. Is that right?

Gift Egwuenu: Yeah, actually I’m forgetting now there is like the initial. Payments. And then after that you get forgotten where you YouTube calls it, but the watch anyway, you [00:23:00] watch and for the time you watch, you get paid, I’ve forgotten where the model is called or okay.

That’s they also have that in place. Yeah. Okay.

Sean C. Davis: Yeah. We’ve, we have a few more minutes and so I think that’s a good transition to talk a little bit about YouTube. So something I asked you before we went live is the thing that I’m, I’ve always struggled with, which is this there, there are so many topics that we can cover.

How do we how do we focus on. Or how really, how to even just get over that failure to launch and start putting stuff out there. And I know you’re doing some live stuff and some recorded stuff all on YouTube. So how do you think about what’s your strategy for planning content?

Gift Egwuenu: Okay. I’ve done mine based on a lot of Trium fields like trials. I really don’t think that I have one good. Strategy for how to do YouTube write. Cause it’s YouTube is a lot of work first. That’s the first thing I would say. Lots of work specifically. It well, depends on the kind of videos that [00:24:00] you’re making.

So for my videos I have two, two tangents, so I talk about tech and also like their personal. Lifestyle. So my personality as a developer, and I also talk about career, like how to get into take, helping folks get into take and all that. When I first started, it was fine. Actually, the reason why I started YouTube in the first place was because I had a blog and it was doing really well.

And I thought, why not try to make videos out of the blog post that I’ve written? Because I find that most people probably enjoy watching videos more than reading long articles. So that was the first reason why I went with YouTube, but then I decided to expand and do more stuff and starting off, I did more.

If I have a presentation or something, I’ll just publish it. So I ne I didn’t start with an actual video. I just went off with the previous conference talk that I done. I [00:25:00] downloaded it from the conference website and uploaded it as my first video. And then I’m like, okay. Yeah, that’s my first video.

What next? And then I did a couple of. So the articles that I’ve written, I just made that into YouTube videos and then I published it. I remember doing one on jump stack and one on stack beats stack. I’m very stack beats. It’s like it

Sean C. Davis: just, oh, that’s yeah, this is where I work. Yes. Woo.

Gift Egwuenu: Interesting. Yeah, that was like three years ago. I. I

Sean C. Davis: did not. Yeah. Very different now but

Gift Egwuenu: yes I did that too. And then I decided to try doing apart from doing tutorial, then I decided to start doing lifestyle. So Def talking about I’m a developer, right? This is a day in my life working.

Company, I did the video once and it went, it did really well. And then that was when I was set in this confusion states, I initially said, this is what I want to do. But then I was [00:26:00] seeing people saying gift, we want a CSS tutorial and the other person’s and I’m also saying that I want this.

So I was a bit, all over the place. So it’s what I really wanted to do. Even though I had already said that these are the two things I want to focus on. And then I found myself just. Maybe for a few months do more of one than the other, cause until I found, I think I watched this person’s YouTube channel Ali ABK.

Yeah. I don’t know if you know him, but he’s really good. Okay. And then I remember just seeing him talking about his process for, making YouTube content. And he has streamlined YouTube video. What’s he called notion templates or whatever that is. And then I used that and that helps me a lot with planning content and just putting in ideas.

So right now I have like ideas upon ideas of what I. To do, but I don’t move it to planning until I’m sure that this is what I really want to make. And that’s [00:27:00] what I’ve been using for a few years now. So I’m fine with doing like these three areas that I mentioned. I don’t. Personally pressure myself to do four tutorial videos before doing like a vlog or something.

I just go with the flu, anything that is sparks joy for me at the points in time. That’s what I would do. And I think in February I had. Tried this before, but I wanted to do it again. Live stream, live streams. I think that it is nice to just make videos and post, but I also want to talk to people.

So I thought, why not just cause I’ve done it twice before, but I didn’t keep up. So I said, why not just start another series where I’m like talking to different people weekly and see how that goes. So tying in the usual contents that I post biweekly or weekly, depending on how, what schedule I have to like doing more, consistent weekly streams.

So I started doing that in February think, [00:28:00] and I’ve tried to do it every week, except when I’m travel. So that specifically gives me more joy because the point is, I think you’re also using stream yard. I use stream yard. The moment I end the life, it gets uploaded as a video and that takes out. So much work from personally, I spent like hours, I did same videos.

Like the last video I uploaded took four hours, yeah. Yeah. So I’m not even accounting for the recording time, the time it takes for you to think of the idea. But if you do like live stream is way more easier. I just, you just need to go life and speak. And that takes away a lot of the work from me.

So right now I’m just fine with doing. Different things and it works for me. Yeah. Have you

Sean C. Davis: found that the your viewers don’t really tend to care? About the amount of Polish on your video, or do you get more views on the edited videos?

Gift Egwuenu: I think I’ve done that. Recently I did a poll to [00:29:00] just ask where, what people are feeling, but I’ve also checked analytics to see more people are Thinking about like the kind of stuff I’m putting out.

So first I’ve seen people enjoy the chats when I’m there talking to other people, but people are also asking for a lot of like actual day in live videos, which is more interesting how they expect interest, but it’s also like more work because I’ve tried doing it. I’ve tried doing it a couple of times and oh my God.

I always tell myself I’m not doing this anymore because it’s you do it for a couple of. The ones that I’ve tried doing, I think I did a week. So it’s like you’re filming the entire week. And at the end you have like almost a hundred footage that you have to, it’s not, when I finalize the editing and everything, and it’s 10 minutes video and I publish it and people are like, oh, wow, that was cool.

But it took me hours. To film. So I don’t really do that often, but I definitely thumbs up to [00:30:00] people that do it weekly. Cuz I, I watch developer videos content from other developers that do weekly vlogs. And I don’t think I can do it or . I think more people are interested in that kind of stuff, which is it makes sense.

Cause it’s entertaining as well. Knowledge sharing in way, because you talk about, Hey, this is what I’m doing for the week. I’m probably working now. I work as a developer advocate, but before I used to work as a front end developer consultant and doing this kind of videos, I would show like, this is what I’m building.

This is what I’m doing. So I think it’s fun for people to actually see the person behind, see the personality. I think so. But it’s what, it’s a lot of work

Sean C. Davis: yes. Yes. That’s yeah. That’s a great point though. You just like, so it sounds a lot, don’t put pressure, minimize the friction.

Don’t put pressure on the schedule, the editing process, just and let your personality come through. That’s yeah. That’s great advice. Okay. So [00:31:00] now I’m gonna go try I’m gonna go try a tuna fish or tuna salad sandwich. and start putting stuff on YouTube. I’m yeah, I’m super motivated by this.

You should.

Gift Egwuenu: Yeah. It’s it’s a nice platform. Yeah.

Sean C. Davis: All right. Great. So we’re actually we’re at a perfect time to transition into our, our I don’t know what we’re gonna call it, our speed round. I’ve got a list of five questions and it should be pretty quick and hopefully produce some quick answers.

And as always feel free to pass. But yeah. All right. Let’s yeah, let’s do it. Question number one. So what is something that what you mentioned that you live in the Netherlands live in Amsterdam. What is something that most people don’t know about either Amsterdam or the Netherlands?

Gift Egwuenu: That’s an interesting one. Let me see people don’t know Dodge people are. Very akin to, I don’t know. Maybe people know this, they love their cheese. Cheese is like really big here. So if you’re not been towards this area, you, [00:32:00] if you have been to the Netherlands, you probably know this fact, or if you haven’t shown you haven’t, I’m telling you

Yep. And they big they love cheese, like all kinds of cheese. There’s a particular cheese called ha it’s a city here. Okay. Yeah. So it’s like a huge thing, but I’m not a fan. Unfortunately, I don’t like cheese.

Sean C. Davis: Do you have a favorite cheese that you’ve discovered since moving?

Gift Egwuenu: I’ll say it’s the one that I just mentioned Bo ha.

How, I’m not sure I’m pronouncing it properly. Okay. Cause the Dutch have specific way of pronouncing things or that’s cheese is nice, but I don’t like it. I don’t like cheese in general, so I might be biased, but okay. I think that’s one thing then another thing that comes to mind is Here you have like really tall people.

So I’ve seen folks that are like 6, 11, 6, 6, 9. They’re quite tall. I used to [00:33:00] think I was tall for meeting people here. It’s like crazy. Yeah.

Sean C. Davis: I love that as a fun fact. I’m like, okay. Yeah. You would be able to pick me out cuz I would be a very person yeah. Okay. Question number two. What are. Or what would you say you are most thankful for in your career or grateful?


Gift Egwuenu: first, I would say friends and people that I’ve met in the community. Cause I’ve met a lot of people that are now friends over my years in the tech industry. So I’m thankful for them, people that are always like pushing me to do the stuff that I’m more scared of. Recommending me for stuff, a lot of people have actually pushed me forward and that’s why I’m very big on also helping people as well.

So lending a hand or I dunno how that phrase go, but anyway, yeah, I’m very grateful for people. The connections that I’ve made in the [00:34:00] industry.

Sean C. Davis: That’s great. Yes. Yes, totally. I think I would give the same answer. That’s yeah, it’s all about the people and pushing each other forward.

Okay. Question number three. This is, I usually put this at the end, but I thought I would move it up and try some little different, I generally call this my second favorite question. It. What is the worst mistake that you’ve made as a developer in your career?

Gift Egwuenu: Oh, okay. I would have to think about this.

I think seeing no talk good opportunities. This was way my career I had a few opportunities that I could have taken number because I was scared. I said no to them. And Now that I think about it. It would’ve been great. If I had accepted them, like one was giving me a job and I felt like I wasn’t qualified.

So I said no to it. It happened a couple of times, actually, same thing. And. Yeah, I think if I had done, if I had, if I have to relieve that period in my life, I’ll just be [00:35:00] like gifts, just go ahead. If you feel, you just pick yourself up, just go for it. So those are like early mistakes that I think I’ll say I’ve made, I’ve not dropped the data busy yet in my career.

Sean C. Davis: You’re lucky person. I’m amazed. This is good. Maybe you’ll never will. That’ll be amazing.

Gift Egwuenu: Yeah, maybe I won’t and I hope I don’t. Yeah,

Sean C. Davis: that? That’s great. Okay. And for question number four, it’s similar to and number two said, what are you thankful for? But number four, what, so you’re a creator.

So what thing that you’ve created, are you the most proud of so far?

Gift Egwuenu: Oh, interesting. Let me see. No, this is hard cuz I. Generally would see everything, which is nothing very good. OK. Because there are different things that I’ve tried. I’ve tried almost everything, honestly, right now. I’ve I went from writing [00:36:00] blog posts to doing videos, to making Instagram mirrors to talk all that I’ve done pretty much.

Everything a creator can do. And just the goal is just to reach more people, help more people. And some of it’s ends up going well, some of it, I feel like I don’t think I can be consistent with all of it. I just focus on one, but I think the biggest thing or out of being a creator, feeling specific tech is just helping.

People. And it’s funny because you feel like you make stuff and you post it on the internet, but the amount of people that reaches right. Overwhelms me sometimes when I hear people from like the other end of the world watching my stuff. It’s like crazy. So I think regardless is everything that I’ve done or put out that has helped somebody in one way or on another.

Yeah. That’s what I’m proud of.

Sean C. Davis: Great. Okay. Fifth and final question. Before [00:37:00] we wrap up this one is a four parter. So I’m cheating here. And this has made most of the episodes. This was one where I put it in there. Just on a whim and have had such interesting answers that it keeps it keeps sticking around okay.

Okay. Four parted. The scenario is . The scenario is you can. Anyone you want to lunch? You’re going to lunch. A person can be living or dead. And the questions are one who is the person? Two, which restaurant are you going? Or where are you going to eat three? What is the food that you’re going to eat? And four, what is the topic that you’re going to bring up first?

Gift Egwuenu: Interesting. Cuz I recently talked about having to pick someone to a nice restaurant. I found here in Amsterdam. So I’ll see my friend she also lives here in the Netherlands and we are both very interested in. It’s in spicy food. So I recently found [00:38:00] a, unfortunately I can remember the name of the restaurants, but it’s a Chinese restaurant in the middle of Amsterdam, amsterdam central. And I went there. I think I find the nicest things by just randomly just scrolling. So I was just going over, I don’t remember where I was going to, where I found it and I just entered and it had there are many feels like it was a book. It was literally in Novo. Like the me I was so confused.

Like when he asked me to order the waiter kept coming back, cuz I was so indecisive and what I ended up ordering was so good. I ordered the spicy beef Qury and it came with this massive, the PLAs that they serve, Asian restaurants are known for chunk LA large chunks of food for, and for the prize.

It was also really good. So I thought I would go back there with my friend. So I’ve answered the question. I’m going there with my friend blessing. We’re having the beef qu and Conversations would be to talk about travel. [00:39:00] So recently we’ve been doing a lot of trips together, so we’ll probably talk about where we’re going next in Europe, and also she’s trying to get into tech, so I’m trying to get her into tech and she applied to master schools. So we might probably also talk about that. Yeah,

Sean C. Davis: amazing. I love that answer for so many reasons. One is that you picked a friend, usually people pick pick celebrities that they don’t know.

And so I like this is great. It plays into you love helping people. You have these close relationships. And I also love it because you talk about the novel of a menu and it feels oh yes, we were just talking about not being able to choose what to talk about on YouTube. And it’s oh yes.

It’s like the it’s like the Chinese restaurant menu. yeah,

Gift Egwuenu: it ties into it’s. Yeah. It’s nice.

Sean C. Davis: Ah, okay. That’s it for today. Thank you so much, gift. This. This was a ton of.

Gift Egwuenu: Thank you so much for having me had nice time. I was also getting to draw back the question to you, cuz I’m interested in hearing what you [00:40:00] want, what your answer to that.

Sean C. Davis: with the, oh the last before partner. Yeah, that one, I feel like for me that, that changes every day. I it’s like what would I be feeling today? Nobody ever throws the questions back at me. I I’ve recently been, I’ve been listening to. To, to the Beatles quite a bit.

And I nice. I actually took a course and then when I was in my university day, so many years ago but I would, I feel like I would love to I could probably pick any one of them to have have lunch with, but I think. I’m thinking like probably John Lenon. I remember when I was in going through that course at the university that I was like, I always seem to like his songs a little bit more than the ones that the other folks wrote.

Now in terms of like where would I take that? I feel like the, I would, I love trying new things and I think since.[00:41:00] I’m in a relatively small city in Cincinnati. We have about two and a half million people in the surrounding area. And and the pandemic really shook things up quite a bit.

And so there’s a lot of restaurants that I there’s a lot of restaurants that I love that are still around, but there are a lot that went away and new ones that popped up in, in having both the pandemic and little kids at home. I just don’t get out as much as I used to. So I feel. I would do a little research.

I would find a new restaurant and order I, another thing I really like to do is I like to ask the servers what what they recommend and that doesn’t always go well, but it’s a fun on gamble. So yeah, you pick for me, I’m very, the theme you’re getting from me is that I’m very indecisive.

So it’s so yeah, somebody else tell me what to eat and I’ll tell you if it’s,

Gift Egwuenu: I’ll probably not do that. Cause I’m very sure that you’ll probably not turn out.

Sean C. Davis: That’s right? Yes. I’ve had, I’ve had probably more good experiences doing that than [00:42:00] bad. Cuz see like typically if the server has been there for a while, they’ve probably, and if it’s not a humongous menu, then they’ve probably tried a good portion of the menu.

They. Like they, I feel like are probably gonna have some reasonable recommendations, but I’ve definitely been in a situation where I’ve done that with someone who was probably either Didn’t have the same taste as me or wasn’t working there super long and yeah, didn’t go so well, but that, I feel like those experiences have been few and far between.

Yeah, cool.

Gift Egwuenu: It’s a nice adventure though. You just try stuff you probably know once to try again or you try stuff you once try again.

Sean C. Davis: yeah, that’s right. Yes. Yes. I really like to I get. It’s a challenge and it’s hard to do, but I like to go to restaurants that I love and try to order something that I haven’t had before just to round it out.

But it’s really hard because it’s but I know if I get this other thing, it’s gonna be really good. So I wanna get the thing, but sometimes you gotta be risky, right?

Gift Egwuenu: yeah. [00:43:00] Yeah. Cool. Nice. Brian is saying that nobody ever asks you that question. You said, see

Sean C. Davis: stumping, you totally stumping.

I’m like I, if I’m gonna ask the questions, I should probably come with a canned answer for me, but yeah you got me there, so yes. Thank you. I appreciate that. Cool. Okay. Before we go, I’ll just give you one, last minute or two, and you can tell all our listeners and viewers how they can get in touch with you and feel free to give a quick plug to anything else that you might be working on that we didn’t talk about.

Gift Egwuenu: Yeah, sure. I’m currently Laura gifts on the score or Laura gift, literally everywhere gift on my YouTube or blog or any of that. Streamline like LinkedIn things that if you like to find the LinkedIn course also, please check out my LinkedIn profile. Other than that, I’m making a lot of. Streams with new people and I’m looking for guests actually, if you like to come on.

That’s great. But anyone that wants to come [00:44:00] on right now I’m just very open to different kind of. Topics tech. Great. Non-tech great. Just talk about amazing stuff that people are working on. Yeah. If you like to be guest, please ping me on Twitter.

Sean C. Davis: Great. Yeah. Great. We actually, we have somebody asking Twitter again.

I think they’re probably looking for your what is your actual handle,

Gift Egwuenu: Laura? On the score, so I’ll type it in chats. That makes sense.

Sean C. Davis: Okay, great. Great. Yeah. Okay. And that is who and Brian’s got it. Yeah, it’s for those of you who are listening and not seeing the screen, it’s L a U R a G I F T underscore.

Yeah. Okay. And again, for those of you listening into the recording and not here live, these shows are recorded, live on the first and third Thursdays of each. At 1:00 PM Eastern time, which is 5:00 PM GMT. The shows are then later syndicated on and [00:45:00] YouTube in video format. And also in audio format, wherever you get your podcast.

And we’re coming close to the end of season one. So we’re gonna take a break in September, but we will before that we’ll be back live on when is August 4th with our pen ultimate our second to last episode of season one, with Peter Cooper of Cooper, press and Cooper press is. Publishing engine that you maybe have never heard of, but is the the, yeah, the engine, the brains behind probably at least a few of the developer newsletters that you get in your email inbox each week.

Okay. So with that, thank you gift. And from all of, thank you for joining us for the show and we’ll see you next time.

Gift Egwuenu: Thanks for having.